RM: You mean that kind of feeling you have when you’re looking at nature, and you’re so aware that you’re looking at nature? RM: Yeah. I’ll go out on a limb here – with people too. I’m with you, I’m talking to you, we’re interacting, but then there’s my awareness of myself talking to you. RM: This is of course a special case. RM: I suppose. RM: Since you brought up metaphors, I have to ask about Lacan. RM: What about Lacan? RM: You must have thought about him. Since your work is about mirrors. RM: I’m not sure that for Lacan the mirror is a metaphor. But I’m basically faking it here. RM: Join the club. RM: I’ve tried to read him. But I’m pretty much at the Lacan for Beginners stage. RM: Could you talk about your work in terms of Lacan for Beginners? RM: As I understand it, his big point is that the self becomes organized at the moment when the infant sees its reflection in the mirror. Maybe I can get a real Lacanian to come and explain it better. But the thing is, mirrors aren’t the only reflective surfaces. We’re reflected in other ways, in other places. In windows, for instance. RM: Right now I’m looking through the window, and I don’t see my reflection. RM: Get closer and you will. Anyway, the point I was trying to get at: when you’re looking through the window, there’s a reflection, but it’s interwoven with the stuff on the other side of the pane.